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adrienne
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Posted: Wed Jun 27th, 2007 08:01 pm |
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| One thing that I've been struggling with during this healing process is my thoughts and feelings about God and His presence (or lack of, as it has often seemed) in my life, both in the past and now. I have been told by several people that God cares about me and wants to help me heal. That has been hard to believe, but I am trying. In every book on healing that I have read, the author mentions that it helps to believe in some greater power, and nearly everyone that I chat with who is going through this process seems to express some kind of belief in God. I was raised in church. I am not sure if I believe in God right now or not. I think I do. I want to. But it has been hard to let these ideas in to a place where I can feel them. I saw a sign outside of a local church a couple of weeks ago that read "God can heal your broken heart if you give Him all the pieces." I liked that a lot. It hit me that as I have been dealing with this issue I have sort of been waiting for this miraculous appearance of faith that I don't possess. Obviously, this hasn't happened. I can't bring myself to turn everything over to God when I don't fully believe or trust Him. But the idea of my heart being in pieces helped. Like maybe if I could give over a little bit at a time, then I could learn to trust as I went along, and eventually He would have all the pieces. My problem is that I'm just not sure where or how to start. Does this make sense? I don't know. I don't really have a specific question with this. I would just appreciate some input if any of you have any ideas or experiences that you would be willing to share.
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scw4survivors
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Posted: Wed Jun 27th, 2007 10:52 pm |
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Adrienne,
I would certainly agree that there are times when it is hard to understand how a loving, omnipotent, omniscient God could allow such horrors to happen. I haven't been able to find a completely satisfactory answer. Usually "free will" is the basic underlying tenet in most of these explanations.
For me, the best explanation I can find is that our concept of time is far more limited than God's concept of time. So, now I have a wonderful husband and a terrific therapist to help me get through this crap that happened 30 to 45 years ago. Maybe in God's time, it's all the same. I certainly wasn't able to deal with it as a little kid; now I have help.
I think it's also fair to say that everyone -- those who have been abused and those who haven't -- has questions about God from time to time. I don't think questions indicate a lack of faith ... I think questions indicate a desire for a deeper understanding of a God who is bigger than what we can comprehend.
As to giving over the pieces of your heart ... maybe you have to find them first. And, in finding all the pieces, you may also discover new insights into how faith works for you.
Just some thoughts ...
Take care, Susan
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cathy
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Posted: Thu Jun 28th, 2007 05:38 pm |
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Adrienne,
I know exactly where you are coming from with having/not having faith in God or some higher spiritual being. I was also brought up in church. A very strict one I might add. But yet some of my abusers were members of this church (or cult as I jokingly call it now). My question has ALWAYS been 'where was God when all of this was going on and if He is so powerful why does He allow this or any abuse to happen, not just to me but to ANY innocent child??' I always tried so hard to do what I was taught (biblically) and told to do. I always tried so hard not to be the burden to my mom that my older brothers were. I was the good child and really believed that if I didn't do what the bible said I would go to Hell. I was literally scared at the thought of burning forever. Somehow over time (not sure when) all that went out the window. Maybe it was when I was 18 and got 'kicked out' of the church. And get this, I was asked to leave for writing a letter to a friend and in the letter I called my mom a bitch. What teenager hasn't done that?? But I think that was an eye-opener for me.
So far there has been no proof to me that there is a God (is that too bold??). This is not to say that I don't believe there isn't something out there, I am just not sure I want to explore that possibility. I think the thought of finding something, believing in it and actually putting faith into anything spiritual scares me more than anything. Maybe I will get to a point in my life where I can feel safe enough to allow spirituality and faith back into my life but right now I am not depending on it to help with my healing.
Is it wrong of me not to believe? Should I be thanking God everyday for all the wonderful 'blessings' I do have. Because according to everyone else I have been blessed with a wonderful husband, 2 great healthy kids, a nice home, good job, great friends, etc.
Maybe over time I have just lost that piece of my heart? But do I want to find it and if I do would that make me whole? Do I need that one particular piece to fully heal from the trials and tribulations I have encountered over my lifetime?
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Lorus
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Posted: Fri Jul 6th, 2007 03:05 am |
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I didn't grow up in church, I had the usual go to church during school thing. Was sent to church during my grade school years. Went to high school and didn't go until I was about sixteen. Went constantly for ten years, and had my daughters who I took to church with me until they were too big to drag there.
My father never went to church and my mother didn't go until I was a teenager. I always felt I had something greater than myself sort of guiding me. I like to say it was God, maybe just to say it was something I was taught was powerful. I couldn't say it was my father or mother, or my turtle.
As I grew older and started my healing process, I still had that guiding feeling. When I looked back at my past and wonder how I survived, I kept getting that same feelling. I think about how there was no human alive through out my life that I trusted. I still struggle with that today. But I know I can trust that feeling. It's a feeling that I'm learning can sometimes calm me and bring me a little peace.
I am now hoping that this feeling can help me in a struggle I never expected. A struggle that this guiding feeling is helping me to cope. I'm talking about the abuse by priests. I know I may sound like a lot of other people, but as this started to unfold a few years ago. I withheld judgement, I tried to stay neutral, or maybe just didn't want to believe it. The only thing that kept me frozen was the disbelief that this man did this to children as the church was in the process of dealing with other abusive priests. What started to thaw me was when nuns and a principle came forward and admitted they told their supervisors what they suspected about this priest.
Everything was denied for a few years, then out of the blue, the priest admitted he abused these boys, he was arrested immediatly, and sentenced to five years. He gets off for good behavior in two and a half. A spokesperson for the church said some cruel remark, " the preception of the priest crimes was worse than reality" "There's a big difference between abuse and assault, it wasn't assault which is more a more egregious crime".
So now I'm struggling to even go to church, I haven't been to church in a few months and I don't have any negative feellings for the church, God, or some of the things I was taught as a child. But the men in church and what I felt is a cover up, with lies. This is what shot me down, this even came about when I was starting to think about going back to church, even one Sunday, to try to start some kind of healing.
I was told, "there's more to church than the men that abuse". I know there is and it's what I believe in. I just have to find a way to move these black clouds away.
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adrienne
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Posted: Fri Jul 6th, 2007 05:54 pm |
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| I guess for myself it isn't so much a church that I am looking for. I want to feel some kind of personal connection with God. I just don't know how to get that. Is it a matter of waiting until I get there? Or should I be doing something? And if so, then what? I just feel lost.
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adrienne
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Posted: Sat Jul 21st, 2007 05:50 pm |
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| I will be visiting a church tomorrow. I'm nervous about meeting all those new people and I will be facing them alone - aghh! It is a rather small church though, so I think I can handle it. My insecurities are raging. I am telling myself that the first day will be the hardest. I spoke with the pastor on the phone on Monday. He seems caring and sincere and down to earth. I looked up the church online and I like their mission statement. It seems so far to be a church dedicated to ministering spiritually to its members and the community. The pastor said that the church is not about religion but about spirituality - about helping people find and maintain a close personal relationship with God. It sounds like just what I am looking for. I feel kind of led to this church - whereas when I have visited churches in the past I just kind of picked one. I hope it turns out to be what I need.
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Lorus
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Posted: Sun Jul 22nd, 2007 02:26 pm |
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Adrienne, I'm glad you found a church you feel you were lead to. Some of the best things that happened to me came from a feeling of being lead there, and only God holds the spot of being leader. I know when you find the right people, they can help you make that connection with God. For me I have that connection with God but not with the church. Church to me is a guidance center and with a good guide you can find God. When I fear a task like meeting people, I try to look at the accomplishment of the task. I was always affraid to meet people, but how will I feel after I've accomplished it. I know I'd feel good so this helps me to go through with it. Your taking that first step alone but you won't be alone when you get there.
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scw4survivors
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Posted: Mon Jul 23rd, 2007 07:12 pm |
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Adrienne,
I hope your visit went well. I'm proud of you for going. It's always hard for me to go do something new ... especially if I don't know anyone there.
Susan
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el2007
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Posted: Wed Jul 25th, 2007 03:14 am |
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Adrienne, I struggle with the same doubts, fears and questions. At times I have had a lot of faith in God. My faith journey is ever-changing like the ebb and flow of the ocean. Some days I feel blessed and want to go to church and praise him, sing and smile. Other days I wonder "Why does God let abuse and incest happen to innocent children?? Why did He let it happen to me and my sister???" I am amazed at some people's fervent faith while mine is weak and at times non-existent. I grew up in a traditional church and went to Parrochial school for 12 years !! My abuser went to church every Sunday. Years later I hear about these "men of the cloth" abusing innocent boys !! Its enough to make you doubt all churches.
I have to admit that despite my fears and doubts I did find a wonderful church family. They welcomed me and helped me. They supported me through all my difficult times with my health. There are still times I avoid going to church beacuse of anxiety, shame or depression. But each time I return I am welcomed with love. If you find a church that feels like "home" to you, you are blessed!! I wish you good luck on your spiritual journey!
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Mending Soul
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Posted: Thu Feb 28th, 2008 05:17 am |
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Adrianne, and others,
I struggled, like you, for years with finding a 'God' because I couldn't for the life of me, understand how could a 'loving' God stand back and watch all this suffering, all the horrible, horrendeous pain man inflicts upon man...and I've been blessed with the 'gift' of 'faith'...and it didn't come in a big wonderful conversion...it came bit by bit...
The first time I really believe I began to gain an understanding of a 'loving' God was when I read a story written by a man who survived a concentration camp in Germany...one day, while he was there, one of the prisoners...just a boy...was being hanged...and all of the prisoners were forced by guards with bayonets, to watch the boy, to watch him swinging by the neck with his hands tied behind his back from a crudely tied rope, struggling to live and suffering horribly until he died...the prison guards were 'making an example' of the child to the prisoners...and the man said to himself in agony as he watched the child's death throes..."where is God?"...and God answered him in his heart.."I am hanging with the child, struggling...suffering...in agony..."
That was the first time I began to believe that the God I wanted to believe in wasn't the one who my parents taught me was mean and hateful...wasn't the one who the sexually abusive priest held over my head as he abused me...wasn't the one who expected me to become good before He would help me...wasn't the one who others said was vengeful...wasn't the one who kept score...wasn't the one who lied and made a mockery of the truth...wasn't the one who I thought all along had abandoned me...but there, suffering with the child, was the God I wanted to know...He was the one who "suffers with me"...He was the one who is present in my agony, weeping with me...He is the one who was spat on, tortured, whipped, beaten, mocked, who fell down over and over and is standing next to me when I fall and when I fail and when I am weary and when I am alone and when I am abandoned and when I am in my darkest hour......He is the one who was unjustly accused, illegally imprisoned, was born into poverty in a stable for animals, who others wanted to murder soon after His birth....He is the one who had excremete poured into His mouth...the one people reviled and laughed at in His agony...who was abused every way a human can be abused...He is the one who received over 5000 wounds on His body in His passion...He is the one who did it all for LOVE of me...and He is the one who truely knows MY PAIN...and MY Weaknesses...and my faults...and my sorrow...and MY CRIES have 'pierced the ears of His Father in Heaven"...This is the God I have come to know...He is the GREAT FRIEND...when I have no friends on this earth...He is my friend...When there is no one to hold me...He is my Comforter...and my Consoler...and when I am drowning in the agony of my abuse and soul murder...He is the one who quenches my thirst for justice and grieves with me over my complete abandonment...because He understands what it is to be completely abandoned...He is my all when I am empty...He grieves with me...and cries with me...and is sad with me...He fills my soul...
It's been a long quest to find my God...my friend...my closest companion...and I believe if you keep searching...you will find Him too...
I know now that He gives 'free will' to every human...and it is the greatest gift...but it is also the most abused...and if He were to take my free will away...or someone else's...He wouldn't be a Just God anymore...His gift to me is the freedom to choose Him...or not...because what good would my love be...if it wasn't a choice...My God is All Love...All Justice...All Compassion...He is everything...
When I look at creation...say the intricate way an eco-system is completely balanced...in the Rain forest...or in a Coral reef...or in an open meadow...or in a snow capped mountain...and I see the intricate delicacy of the creation of a human life...I know there has to be a Greater Being...something that arranged the beauty and balance of it all...and for me...that being is LOVE...the Alpha and Omega...the Beginning and the End...
I was raised in a church...by mentally ill, alcholic, incest abusing parents...and I was abused by priests and the truth was twisted in my mind...and when I left home...I left the church too...and spent years searching...other religions...other beliefs...at times I was 'agnostic'...I believed there was a God...but not one for me...but I never stopped searching...and He never stopped guiding me...I know that now...and over time...through experiences and learning...He gave me the 'gift' of 'faith'...and only through this gift...because I never stopped searching for Him...I've been able to return to my church...and see that the damage done by others was not done by Him...and to see that my belief in the 'truth' is good...and that people...all people...are sinners...but that He is greater than all people...He is greater than all the evil man can do to man...so, now when I go to church...I go to be with Him...because I love Him...not because I am afraid...or because I am fixed now...or because I am 'converted'...I go because He accepts me where I am...and I want to spend time with Him...
So, never stop searching...never stop trying to find the God who will hold you in your pain...and accept you in your brokenness...and heal your bruised and bleeding heart and soul...He is there...I know...I've met Him...
Cathie
Last edited on Thu Feb 28th, 2008 05:25 am by Mending Soul
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Kate
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Posted: Fri Jun 13th, 2008 07:11 am |
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Thank you, Cathie, for mentioning free will.
I personally believe this was the only disagreement Christ had with His Father.
God was so angry with people for abusing their free will - this precious gift that is the first step to divinity - he was ready to wipe us out like the dinosaurs because maybe He hadn't gotten us quite right, and we weren't good enough for divinity - the master plan. I believe that Christ pleaded to give us another chance, and gave his life for this us for this reason.
"Forgive them, Father, for they know not what they do", he said on the cross.
I also believe that no one would rape a child if they knew the impact on that child. They simply couldn't. So - how come some people sexually abused as children grow up to rape children? Well, as childhood sexual abuse survivors know - we freeze our feelings. That's how.
I also remember reading about a primitive tribe in New Guinea who, upon hearing that westerners smacked their children, were aghast and said, "If you hurt a child, it's soul will go away." And indeed it does.
God is right there experiencing EVERYthing we experience. Because God works and lives through us. Don't get a telescope pointed to the heavens to search for the earth.
Kate
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AP319
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Posted: Fri Aug 15th, 2008 10:19 pm |
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I liked what Cathie said a whole lot. Like the rest of you, I've wondered where God could be when a child is being raped by her father. I felt betrayed by God, I raged at God, I said things to God that would make my Catholic raised husband step away from me so he wouldn't get hit when the lightening came. I was resigned to the fact that I didn't know a path back to God at all. Not the God I found in churches that talked about hellfire and damnation anyway.
Then I went to the Kripalu Yoga Center for Health and Wellness in the Berkshire Mountains for a weekend of R&R. While there, I took a class called Yoga and Faith, and we did alot of questioning and sharing about our individual relationships with God. Not me - other people. But I did the work quietly myself. And eventually the teacher came to an exercise where she told us us to sit quietly and mediatate, and ask our God to give us a message. And I thought to myself, yeah, right, just because I'm paying for this weekend retreat, THAT'S why God is going to respond now. It doesn't work that way lady! I was a trifle skeptical.
But I sat there, expecting nothing, being quiet, when in my head I heard a voice that was not my own say "I was in the room". Nothing more, but I understood completely. And I realized that at the moment of my deepest terror, that moment I was being raped by my father and felt foresaken by the world, God was there crying with me, wishing He could help me as much as I wished someone would save me. And that while He couldn't stop it, he could keep me from going through it alone.
That made all the difference in my healing. Fortunately, this was the last exercise of the class, and I made it through and then bolted out the door for my room where I could sob. My friend followed me back to our room and in concern asked 'Are you feeling lost?' And I answered 'No, I'm feeling found'. And from there on I realized that God gave me the best gift He could, which was to witness my pain and make me not suffer alone. We've been building a whole new relationship together ever since.
That's not to say I don't still get pissed off at Him sometimes, and wish it were a world where God could've stopped it. But I am so grateful to know I wasn't as alone as I thought, and that helps tremendously.
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scw4survivors
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Posted: Sat Aug 16th, 2008 12:03 am |
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Wow ... thank you, Anne.
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